A Birthright to Cannabis
Download MP3Welcome to joint session, Diverse Voices in New York State Cannabis, where you hear from policymakers, legislators, thought leaders, licensees, advocates, and others interested in the state of the New York cannabis market. In this episode, I speak with the incomparable Kristin Jordan Esquire, founder of the Asian Cannabis Roundtable, as well as principal in Park Jordan Real Estate. We talk about the impetus for creating the ACR, real estate challenges in a regulated cannabis market, as well as the notion of having a birthright to the cannabis plant. In our licensee highlight segment, I speak with our first microprocessor licensee, Reggie Keith, CEO of Buffalo's Kana House. Reggie's legacy history with cannabis events and on-site consumption has earned Canna House the social and cultural capital that bodes well for the future success of Canna House.
Speaker 1:Prior to our usual news roundup, a little commentary. Wikipedia explains the phrase, cutting off one's nose to spite one's face is an expression used to describe a needlessly self destructive overreaction to a problem. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face is a warning against acting out of pique or against pursuing revenge in a way that would damage oneself more than the object of one's anger. It seems this warning was not heeded by those taking credit for the removal of OCM's leadership. Syracuse.com, the New York Post, and other outlets have reported the exodus at New York's Office of Cannabis Management continues.
Speaker 1:At least four high ranking employees of OCM have recently resigned their positions a month after New York Cannabis Insider reported on other high profile departures from the agency. The OCM confirmed the agency received notices of resignation from Deputy Director of Licensing Danielle Holmes, Director of Health and Safety Nicole Rosa, and First Deputy General Counsel Patricia Heer. Additionally, general counsel Linda Baldwin will leave the agency once a replacement is found. These are by no means the only staffers who have left in the last few months. Some individuals remaining less than a year at the agency.
Speaker 1:I'd guess without a Freedom of Information law request being filed that the head count at OCM is lower today than it was back in May prior to the issuance of the Moy Report. Now this is a disaster. Okay. Let's take a spin around the news. Our last episode's main segment was on cannabis and traffic safety.
Speaker 1:In the last two weeks, the National Transportation Safety Board issued a safety alert on cannabis impaired driving. The NTSB published its final report on the 2022 crash that killed six teenagers. As a teen driver was likely impaired by recent use of marijuana, the board also issued a safety alert aimed at parents to lay out some ways that they can talk to their kids about impaired driving. Quote, the lesson from this tragedy is painfully clear. Marijuana is an impairing substance, period, said NTSB chair Jennifer Hamendi in a statement.
Speaker 1:States have to do a better job at protecting road users from impaired drivers regardless of the substance or its legality. Alabama's medical cannabis program rollout remains paused. Montgomery Circuit Judge James Anderson maintained a halt on the issuance of integrated facility licenses in Alabama, which would be entities that both grow and sell cannabis. The licenses were awarded in December and have been on pause since January due to litigation. In December, Anderson also halted dispensary licenses awarded that month due to litigation.
Speaker 1:It's unclear what's next for the Alabama Medical Cannabis Commission, which has seen its awarding of licenses challenged in court in each of its three attempts to issue licenses since last June. In Illinois, social equity license numbers are high, but their sales are low. A report backed by the state's cannabis regulation oversight office looks at disparity in the state's adult use cannabis industry. The report found that social equity shops made up 11.9% of the 1,600,000,000.0 in adult use sales last year even though they make up 64.4% of retail licenses. The rest of the sales took place at shops owned by existing medical cannabis licensees in the state includes some of the country's biggest cannabis companies like Cure Relief and Cresco.
Speaker 1:Further, of the 199 shop licenses awarded to social equity applicants, only 67 had opened by last year. The report includes recommendations to create a fair and level playing field for all market participants regardless of race or gender. And one recommendation at the top of the list is to broaden availability of financing. In New York, a judge ruled that illegal shops due process argument is moot. As previously reported here, more than two dozen unlicensed cannabis retailers who would padlock under New York City's enforcement plan sued in federal court arguing that the operation padlock to protect program violated the due process rights.
Speaker 1:US District Judge Paul Oetkin has now denied the unlicensed retailers request for an injunction that would have blocked the city's enforcement efforts. The judge wrote there was a low risk of erroneous deprivation of due process rights and agreed with the city's argument that there exists a substantial government interest in protecting public safety. I wanna thank cannabis wire for the news. In addition to that, I'd like to remind you that you can still get 30% off a subscription to Cannabis Wire by going to cannabiswire.com and using discount code c w joint session. I'd like to welcome Kristen Jordan Esquire.
Speaker 1:Kristen is the founder of Park Jordan Real Estate, as well as the founder of the Asian Cannabis Roundtable. And I have to say, Kristen is is probably one of the hardest working people in cannabis. We've been trying to schedule this for quite a bit, so I very much appreciate that she's made the time today. Thank you, Kristen. Welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me, Herb, and I'm I apologize that it's been so difficult.
Speaker 1:Not at all.
Speaker 2:You're catching me on an on an assignment down here in Kentucky right now, so thank you for your patience.
Speaker 1:Alright. So so tell us what you're doing in Kentucky, first of all.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, it's really exciting. So today is, Wednesday, July 3 and the Kentucky medical cannabis application has been open for all of two days. It opened on July 1, on Monday, and closes on August 31. And applicants, similar to some of the licenses in New York, applicants must apply with real estate with their application.
Speaker 2:So we're servicing a client who has, asked us to come down here and help them source, and cite various, real estate, holdings for them to apply for their license.
Speaker 1:Alright. So you're a cannabis real estate attorney, a cannabis real estate expert. So what's the difference between that and just being a real estate expert?
Speaker 2:Oh, man. Cannabis, as you know, has so many additional layers and and convoluted, laws and regulations around it. So, you know, having that expertise has been crucial to understanding this process. I am a real estate attorney by trade. I've been practicing for, gosh, I'm afraid to do the math, but, over twenty five years at this point, predominantly located in the New York City area.
Speaker 1:Long enough long enough to be an expert.
Speaker 2:That's it, or at least, at least to be able to to to talk the lingo, But every day I learn new stuff and, certainly in cannabis, every state that comes online is a new adventure and different roles and different regs that we're trying to make sense for our clients. I think that the specialty here is really understanding the process. Right? Like, it's
Speaker 3:you can find, any real estate broker who can find you property, but explaining the process to potential landlords and property owners,
Speaker 2:who become your partners in this process Mhmm. Has been really helpful for our clients, so that they understand the risks associated, the the benefit to it. I think there's a misconception that we're just printing money over here in our industry, And, obviously, that's not the case. It's much more, complicated than that.
Speaker 1:In Kentucky, when does the window close and, and how many licenses are expected to be handed out?
Speaker 2:The application window opened July 1. It closes August 31. So we've got two months over the summer for which many people are on vacation and, you know, just out of pocket. So it's been real challenging to get folks on the phone and to pay attention to this. In addition, another complication that we have here in Kentucky is that the municipalities have the opportunity to opt out, meaning not have any sort of cannabis business.
Speaker 2:Here in our sorry, in our home state of New York, it was only the retail, either dispensary or on-site consumption licenses that would be the municipalities could opt out from. Here in Kentucky, it's all businesses. Cultivation, processing, testing, any sort of business, the municipality can opt out. But here's here's the craziness here, Herb. So we've got the application, window open July 1, closes August 31.
Speaker 2:They expect to award licenses in October of this year, just a couple months later, and then the municipalities actually have the opportunity to opt out until December 31. So can you imagine a scenario where, one of our clients would win a license in August or, excuse me, in October, but then find out that the municipality has decided to opt out
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Shortly thereafter, and then we're stuck holding real estate and potentially even in a build out phase at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The timing there seems like it could have been done a little bit better.
Speaker 2:The timing to me indicates that perhaps, they had really not, wanted this to roll out in the way that we had hoped. Okay.
Speaker 1:Alright. So let's, come back to, to New York and the work that you've done in New York. And what I wanted to, you know, focus on is the Asian Cannabis Roundtable and the work that you did there.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. So back in, I think it was 2016 or 2017, when we just had the medical program under the Compassionate Care Act, there were a number of us who would go to, for instance, Women Grow meetings or, my friend Mike Zaitsev used to host an event called High NY where it was a networking opportunity, to meet one another and those of us who are early, entrants into the industry. And, you know, we were just starting to see that, you know, it was a pretty, pretty white environment. The the most of the folks that were coming
Speaker 1:to these
Speaker 2:events pause there. Yeah. Perfect. You know, it's, it's a it's funny that, you know, we're talking about this now in in 2024 because I just don't see those environments anymore. You know, most of the cannabis, experiences that I've had involve non white people and a diverse community.
Speaker 2:So we've come a long way since the early adoption of, of the medical program where the rooms just did not reflect, New Yorkers. And, you know, in those early days, I started to see some Asian people, you know, poking their heads around. And at the time, it was mostly doctors and lawyers. I think mostly because our industries were intersecting the cannabis industry at the time, so it didn't feel as fearful for us to tiptoe around and to explore the the space. But there were a few of us, and and so what I did was, I was working for a law firm on 30 Second And, Broadway, which is right in the heart of Koreatown, and we started to meet once a month for dinner.
Speaker 2:I'd invite folks over and we'd order from Urijeep, which is a Korean restaurant right on the block, and we would start to talk about, you know, the various things that we were doing in the industry and, more importantly, about how we could support one another. So I'm reminded of one of the first meetings where, reporter Mona Jeong, who is now, the cannabis reporter at Politico. At the time, she was running a newsletter called Word on the Tree, which, you know, was an aggregator for cannabis industry news, and she sort of taught us a little bit about the origin of prohibition and where plant based material and specifically cannabis was part of our traditional heritage, in our traditional countries. But because of prohibition here in The US, we've exported, some of our crappy drug policy laws, our our, racism, all the things that were associated with the prohibition of of cannabis, back to these countries that traditionally used, plant based medicines. And so it was really eye opening to learn about some of that history that, frankly, I'd never been taught in my my, grade school learnings and beyond.
Speaker 2:And, you know, so we started to use that platform as a space, a safe space for Asian people to explore all kinds of different areas around cannabis, from consumption to, you know, job opportunities, workforce initiatives, small business opportunities. And we've seen a number of folks who were from those early days of cannabis roundtable, now in leadership roles, including Mona, who is now, you know, a very, prominent reporter with, with Politico. So it's been really neat to see people's careers thrive, and and how we've all helped to support one another.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, and I think you touched on it a little bit, but I I saw a quote from you about, about having a birthright to the plant. So can you talk about what that means to you?
Speaker 2:You know, it's real interesting, Herb. For me, I'm an adopted person and, my mom is Italian. My father, who's, since passed is Irish and English. And I really, growing up in Syracuse, New York, with other, siblings who were also adopted and and non white, I never really had an attachment or a, a community of Asian people, and specifically I'm Korean. So it wasn't until I came to New York City and found that community of other adopted people and other Korean people and other Asian people, and then specifically started to build, around this Asian cannabis roundtable, within my industry, that's when I started to understand a little bit more about how actually important it is for me to be proud of of being from Korean heritage
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And really understanding that three generations ago, marijuana was a a legitimate plant based medicine in Korea. But today, we see K pop stars, dying by suicide because of the implications of cannabis use. And it's just tragic to me that, you know, I am able to use, and and consume cannabis freely, in my own personal life and in my health and wellness journeys. But folks who, you know, really cultivated this plant, from generations ago are not in that situation. So it's important to us to really connect back to those traditional cultures and support, you know, legalization across the globe.
Speaker 2:I've always been part, and and the Asian Cannabis Roundtable has always been actively participating in, you know, communities where the prohibition of of cannabis has impacted communities of color, and it's always been important to us to stand up in that fight for justice for all communities. And we know specifically that statistics show that brown and black communities are tremendously impacted, specifically black men and women. And so it's important for us to reuse our voices and our platforms to stand in alliance. But we also recognize that globally, not just within The US, there is a a global fight. And, many times our traditional countries are involved, in those those persecution of people who are consuming.
Speaker 2:So, we see this as a a global, scenario, and it's important to continue to raise that that issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Now the ACR is active in New York State, but now you're also beginning to shift to a national focus. Now I know the work in New York isn't done, but but what's your focus, on the national scene?
Speaker 2:Well, Herb, I am so pleased to say that I'm I'm actually taking a little bit of a step back, from ECR. You know, I've been sort of the dryer and, the the lead on this for many years since 2016, but last year, January of twenty twenty three, we, elected and and, supported our first board of directors, and they are from all over The US. We've got folks from California. We've got involvement from, friends in Oregon, all over the place. And then this year, we elected our our second executive director who is, Vivian Fellman, and she's actually in North Dakota.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:So it's exciting to me to not only be able to raise up other Asian voices, but to your point, for us to be more of a national organization, meeting the needs of Asian people across the the, the globe. New York, obviously, is an important driver in a lot of this, but we also recognize that there are a lot of Asian people in New York. And so we have a network and we have support. Where we really wanna make some impact is places like North Dakota, like the Midwest, where perhaps the Asian presence isn't as, as felt and as as notable. So we wanna bring all the resources that we have on the coasts to these other places, and bring that support.
Speaker 2:So I'm I've been really excited to see some of the programming that we've been, pumping out, and it's been just a real joy to see this new leadership raise up. I think that is the thing, for me that I'm learning about being a founder is the joy of being a founder is being able to appoint that successorship and to be able to sit back and and really be proud of the work that we did in the front end, but to see it succeed and continue, by others who who will carry on that mission.
Speaker 1:And, you know, it's also great to support the, you know, other talent. You know, too often the the founders, you know, remain the leads of the organization for for very many years. So congratulations to you for stepping back.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I I think that's so important, Herb. I I have so been so lucky and so blessed to have community around me that supported me and given me opportunities. I I would be remiss if I didn't mention, my friend Gia Marone from Women Grow, who actually provided me with the first opportunity to speak on a stage about cannabis and about, some of the social justice work that I was doing back in 2017.
Speaker 2:And, you know, people like Jia continue to open doors, for folks like me, but, you know, I've been in this space for a long time, and now it's time for me to open those doors for others. And that's always been a part of my my goal and where I sit and, you know, I've heard I'm getting old.
Speaker 1:You're not.
Speaker 2:You know? I'm ready to move aside and to create spaces for other folks so, so that I can go find a beach somewhere.
Speaker 1:Now you're you're also running a business, Park Jordan. Could you talk a little bit about the, the services that, provided by Park Jordan?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I started my eponymous, brokerage firm back in 2021, when I realized, number one, that there were a lot of attorneys out here and, you know, hustling for that sort of work, doing applications, helping clients on that front, there were just a lot of other resources that I was competing with and I just didn't see that my talent and expertise was contributing anything additional to what was already in that marketplace. So I leaned on my traditional background, which is real estate and site selection, which I've been doing for over twenty something years for various companies and businesses, and thought, you know, this was an area that was sorely lacking. We really don't have traditional brokerage firms that are solely focused on cannabis. And with this being so complicated and really, I think that there are two pain points in this industry, lack of access to capital and the real estate constraints.
Speaker 2:And we see attempts to to marry investors and to to find, that investment community, but we don't see a lot of attention being paid to the real estate side. So in 2021, I had the good fortune of meeting, Barrington Rutherford, who, held a role at one of the multi state operators similar to where to what I was doing at, one of the New York multi state operators, and there were very few of us who come from that traditional corporate real estate background. We hit it off and, he is now acting as my chairman of the board And we do site selection. We do municipal review. We help clients in all aspects of, real estate, selection and and, negotiation.
Speaker 2:So, it's been a it's been a joy to bring that that expertise that I have from non cannabis work to this industry, and it's been interesting to see how, the real estate community, reacts to our regulations, our programming, and it's been fascinating to see how this is all playing out.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned the multistate operators at the MSOs. Yes. Do you think that maybe New York should have led with the MSOs opening up the adult use as some other states did? You've worked both with MSOs and with the smaller, licensees.
Speaker 2:Herb, you're trying to get me canceled here. You know, so that that is a really interesting, question, and I don't pretend to be I I my husband jokes with me because he because he's here all day with me and he hears me on the phone. I don't like to use the word expert because I don't I don't think that, you know, any of us are are really qualified to say that we're experts yet because everything changes with every new state that opens up. Right? So I think just based on what I see today, it is a shame that so many of our small operators, our mom and pop operations, our early adopters who are given these opportunities at licensure, are now hemorrhaging money.
Speaker 2:You know, the idea, the concept of of allowing, first our hemp, farmers to cultivate and now our justice involved individuals to open up retail stores, man, that was a great idea. And in concept, on paper, married with, the capital to, you know, really, start these businesses, that would have been phenomenal. But unfortunately, we did not provide these operators with the capital to do that. And so it's challenging. It's, you know, it's easy to go back in time and say you should have you done this, we should have done this.
Speaker 2:What I can say is we look at states that didn't do this. We are the first state that opened up the marketplace with these types of operators. And what I'll say is farmers are not necessarily cultivators. They think very differently. They're not necessarily, prepared to start brands, as an example.
Speaker 2:Most of my farmer clients, they're former produce, farmers, and so they're used to growing wonderful product and bringing it straight to a farmer's market. There's no branding involved. There's no marketing involved in that. So it was a real challenge for many of them to make that transition and to, figure out how to how to transition into a brand. On the retail side, similarly, we and rightfully so, I think, we we started the market with justice involved individuals who've been wronged by the war on drugs, who've been harmed by the war on drugs, but we didn't provide them with the capital to start up their businesses.
Speaker 2:And And so there's four sixty plus card licensees, but we only have 100 something stores open. And, you know, I must get at least five to 10 calls every week about, some of these card licensees who are looking for real estate, But unfortunately, I'm not able to help them because they don't have the capital in the bank account to show a landlord that they can actually pay the rent. And without, without that proof of funds, you know, landlords are reluctant to, lease to a a first time operator. So there's a little bit of a disconnect here. So, I don't mean to evade your question.
Speaker 2:It's just a little bit more complicated than just a straightforward yes or no. But, you know, in hindsight, I think that at the point when we realized that we weren't able to fund these folks or to give grant money or low or low interest loans, I think that perhaps we should have rethought how to go about this.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, thank you for that answer. What is it that you wish to see in New York, over the next twelve to eighteen months?
Speaker 2:Look, Herb, everybody talks about it. The proliferation of the unregulated, the unlicensed stores is a real problem. From a real estate perspective, I don't know that it necessarily means that those those stores that are unlicensed will convert into licensed stores. You know, they don't abide by setbacks and the buffers that, that we all know are important and and part of the programming. So I'm not sure that that necessarily translates into, more stores, but I'll tell you this, it will end some of the confusion in the marketplace for consumers.
Speaker 2:Right? Like, at this point, these stores look more like dispensaries than our dispensaries do because of the the onerous regulations around advertising and marketing. I also think that untested product in the marketplace is not what we're trying to do here. We're trying to bring New York products. We're trying to encourage folks to care about the testing and safeness of our regulated products.
Speaker 2:So, just the education around what it means to have a regulated industry is something that I'd love to see. And I think that I'm hearing the OCM is going to be engaging in some statewide listening tours and sessions, and I hope they'll bring that education piece to consumers. But also closing these stores, closing the unregulated stores. That's what I need to see in the next few months. I know that this is gonna be a long process.
Speaker 2:I used to be a landlord tenant litigator, and, you know, going through the the eviction process in New York City is not easy and not pretty, and it's and it's expensive.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But it's it's a necessity. And so I applaud people like, city councilwoman, Gail Brewer, who is really making great efforts and great strides in leading those closures. I think Sheriff Miranda has his work cut out for him, but that's really important. We need to be closing these unregulated stores.
Speaker 1:Very good. Thank you, Kristen, for your time today. Good luck with your, applications in Kentucky.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Appreciate you, Herb. This is a wonderful podcast and really great for our industry.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you. That's very kind of you. Reggie Keith is in our licensee spotlight. Reggie has received a micro business license and is expecting to begin operations in the next few months. In New York state, a micro business licensee is allowed to cultivate, process, distribute, select retail, deliver cannabis, and organize cannabis events.
Speaker 1:Kenna House is well positioned for success. Welcome, Kenna House founder, Reggie Keith. Now Kenna House, is a Buffalo based private social club centered around cannabis.
Speaker 3:That's correct. That's correct. That's our origin. We've kind of morphed into whatever, a bit of a resource center of sorts
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:You know, going forward. But, yeah, we our roots in cannabis is, a private social club where we specialize in, activity based events, puff and paints, murder mysteries, cooking with cannabis. We're all about, you know, making sure there's some cool stuff to do, you know, once we get hot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And puffin paint is surprisingly popular. I don't see it, but it's surprisingly popular.
Speaker 3:No. You know what? I think that it actually just ties those two cool things together. Right? It's just like that art form of, like, using all your your brain a little bit, man, and then stimulating your brain.
Speaker 3:So it's a cool pair.
Speaker 1:And I I see it a lot. So now you're you're, you received a micro business license from the state of New York?
Speaker 3:That is correct. Yes, man. We were in the May batch of approvals. And so, yeah, we're excited to hit the ground running as a a micro business in the state.
Speaker 1:We've talked about the, you know, the queues here a a bunch. You know, the the November queue, December queue. You were in, I'm guessing, in the November queue.
Speaker 3:Correct. Yeah. That, of course, required us to have a location Mhmm. Solidified, and it was quite the journey. You know?
Speaker 3:The process wasn't the easiest, but, yeah. It just was time consuming. But, yeah, it's about six to seven six months, you know, from our application to approval at seven months or something.
Speaker 1:So talk a little bit about what a micro business, is, what it's it's authorized to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's one of the very, to me, the the the most, opportunistic license opportunities, especially for, people from our community, maybe those who don't have a ton of capital. I mean, and we're all no license category is cheap, but the upside for a micro business is really has the the best potential, in the business. Because you can actually perform all of the operations in the supply chain. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:You know, you're capped, because you're a micro business, so you're gonna get so big. But, you do have the ability to grow the product. So cultivate, manufacture, you can process the product as well for other folks, as well as retail, which everybody knows. Then, of course, there's events. We're waiting for those regulations to kinda roll out so we can have some clear instructions.
Speaker 3:But, again, we cut our teeth doing events. So we're really excited that the license allows us to kinda still have the identity that we had on the legacy side.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And
Speaker 3:people can really still enjoy, you know, the the energy and the vibe that they're used to when they, you know, comes to us. But yeah, man, as a micro business, we're kind of able to, you know, perform the full supply chain. The caveat would be that what we provide in our retail space or out as a wholesale provider does have to come directly from us.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So it's something that we'd have to manufacture or, you know, cultivate if it was a flower product. But, you know, we really look forward to being able to do that because, you know, we think we got some really cool cultivars and some strains that people haven't seen. And, you know, we're really excited about branding some of the local folks who wanna transition into the industry, but don't really know a path in. And so, you know, we we really see the opportunity there in the micro.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of expertise that's necessary for a micro business that's maybe not necessary for other license types. Right? Because you you have to know how to cultivate, how to grow Yeah. And process, distribute, package, you know, all that stuff. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So so why why did you decide to do the micro business license as opposed to, you know, for example, a retail license?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So it's funny that you asked because we actually started off on a path of on-site consumption. Mhmm. Which is will be a stand alone license. We actually wrote a white paper, a while back on how to kinda steer the regs on on-site consumption.
Speaker 1:Which is also the the your background. Right? Was was in the Correct.
Speaker 3:Exactly. Right? And so we because because of that, we were thinking, hey. When that license category opens up, we need to be on that. What actually directed our path is that as we were following because a big part of being an early adapter or early operator is that you really need to be in touch with how the regs are moving and how the state is moving.
Speaker 3:And at that time, it seemed that the there was so much going on with, you know, growers or even retail had opened up with the car, licenses, that on-site consumption really was an afterthought. So the thought of, hey, if we really wanted to be moving early into the to the space and starting to own some capital in terms of consumer, you know, loyalty and, appreciation, we need to get in early. We couldn't wait until on-site consumption would be available, you know, two years from now or a year from now. And so we're like, well, what category does fit what we do? And as micro came online, we started to see, like, hey.
Speaker 3:Micro business really does allow us still to do the on-site consumption, and we can do a lot of other stuff too. And to your point, the original question is, like, there was so much stuff to be done, which allowed us to really go out and leverage a lot of the resources that we had already, you know, got with. Mhmm. So we brought in, one of our close friends who's a licensed cultivator in New Jersey, so he can come into our cultivation. Right?
Speaker 3:And so, you know, we we are doing some intensive training with a manufacturing partner who brought one of our products online, early into, you know, our existence. But they've taught us how to do manufacturing. Right? And so we started to learn these skills and hone these skills so that we want to stand these these verticals up, that we had, a little bit of expertise. And then, of course, we're gonna draw on being able to hire somebody to come in and and really lead those initiatives.
Speaker 3:But absolutely. And it's it's it's a lot to handle. But, again, as I was saying, the as we started to evaluate, again, one, getting into the industry as early as possible, but two, having the most impact But as we start to see how important, our existence as a black male led company, you know, what impact we were having on our community, we're like, oh, the there's so much more impact we can have, and this license allows us to do so much. And so, yeah, that was like, hey, man. It's certainly worth the worth the work that is gonna come.
Speaker 1:And I think the the hope for the micro businesses is is that New York develops these very sort of specific unique craft brands. Right? I mean, I think New York you know, really did well when it came to, beer and spirits, when they sort of focused on development of craft breweries. So I think that, you know, that's part of the hope for these micro businesses.
Speaker 3:For sure.
Speaker 1:What's your vision for how you're gonna sort of develop this and market it?
Speaker 3:Our goal is to use some of that, social capital, of course, or cultural capital. Right? We see that cannabis is really kind of this underground or this great area existence it's had a society. You know, we've garnished our, reputation in that arena. And if people are transitioning into the legal and industry version of this, you know, cultural, you know, phenomena, we feel like we really wanna lead with our culture.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. And so creating experiences that, tap people into the culture while being able to consume in a safe space is really what we drive. You know, our four core pillars are, education. Right? If we can make sure when people come into our space, they leave a little bit smarter about cannabis.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:You know, that's a goal for us. Advocacy, because again, we really advocate for the consumer. You know, we advocate for the plant. We advocate for its legality. But once the person gives you their money, right, it's kinda like, you know, you're on your own.
Speaker 3:But that leaves them finding safe spaces to consume. You know, they might be in housing that doesn't allow them to do that. And so somebody needs to advocate for them. So that was a big part of how we plan on, being impactful and using the license. Of course, those dope spaces that I'm talking about, right, creating so safe spaces and experiences.
Speaker 3:And then that those products, right, we wanna be able to provide dope, cool, new to market products, show our community that we can be innovators in the space. And so that's kind of our core. And what that'll look like is, you know, a kind of a one stop shop experience at our location. Here in Buffalo, we're only gonna West Side or Rhode Island, right near the Peace Bridge. So we're looking at as a vibrant neighborhood, bring some really cool elements, refurbish some things around us.
Speaker 3:And so our goal is to really integrate ourselves into the community, make sure that, you know, we're not just, kind of leaching or taking from the community. We really want to make sure that we're giving back. And then again, when you walk in the doors, man, I don't want to give too much away, but it'll be an experience unlike any other in the state. And we really wanna stand out in that way. We wanna make sure that people have been like, hey.
Speaker 3:When I go to New York City, I get this vibe with cannabis. But outside of New York City, you know, what does that identity look like? And we wanna be kind of the leaders and making sure people are like, hey. When I'm not in New York City, I love to go to Cannon House because that vibe is just, you know, somewhere I can't find.
Speaker 1:You got the license in May. When do you think you'll be operational?
Speaker 3:Realistically, we know we we see about six to eight months. You know, we're closing in on some capital, that we really need to, you know, make sure the project can go to the next phase, which is one of our issues originally, is that a lot of, you know, what we wanted to sell and pitch to our investors, it was all a pipe dream until you had a license.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Right? And so, you know, we really didn't wanna take any capital on until we really had that. And so now since May, we've been kinda raising a couple of dollars, make sure that we can get into the next phase. And once that's complete, build out should take roughly about four to six months. And then we could realistically see ourselves cutting the ribbon in, q one next year.
Speaker 1:Alright. Now you talked a little bit about not being a leech in the community. Right? And Mhmm. And I noticed that you have a couple of, sort of social programs that you guys are involved in as well.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Can you talk a little bit about Vybe and what Vybe is and and then CARE.
Speaker 3:For sure. Sure. So we we love acronyms around here. I guess it's a thing in, in cannabis that just developed. So shout out to the OCM for, initiating that.
Speaker 3:Right? But, yeah, VIBE stands for a very intentional black experience. Right? We were lucky enough and privileged enough that our hard work got us to Phoenix, Arizona for the Super Bowl in 2023. I'm sorry, 2022.
Speaker 1:What were you doing there?
Speaker 3:We actually were part of the first ever consumption part. And so that weekend, really dope group of, cannabis entrepreneurs got together to provide one of the first, like, festivals and oases for cannabis at, like, a big event like that, for that weekend. So we were excited. We were able to partner with Temeka Group. They helped us build out a really, really dope experience with the official lounge of the parks.
Speaker 3:People were able to come over, consume their cannabis, test out some of our, infused beverages that we had. Dirty lemonade is our our house beverage that we
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Produce. And so, that was a really cool experience. We also were able to take seven budding cannerpreneurs with us. We put them through a, eight week program. And it was a part of their externship, but that they were able to come down and be team leaders for us in a few areas as we were, you know, providing this experience, at the park.
Speaker 3:And so that was a great experience for them. We we had all those guys. Actually, three of them are actually New York State license holders as well now. And so we're absolutely proud to have that kind of success rate. But, yeah, man.
Speaker 3:Supervibe was the first time we were able to go out and help other canopreneurs pursue their dreams, you know, leverage our resources and some of the information that we've learned. And so that was a really dope experience. We'll be having another iteration of that, you know, probably summer of twenty twenty five. And then CARE. CARE is one of those again.
Speaker 3:Education is used for us. Impact is used for us. CARE stands for the cannabis awareness readiness education. It is a spin on DARE. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Of course, DARE being one of these, really historic programs that was entered into, our society.
Speaker 1:Still may have t shirts.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'm sure. Or at least the at least the song ringing in the back of our head. Right? But, yeah, there was, you know, for for good and bad, for, you know, everybody's opinion about it.
Speaker 3:Its purpose was to, inform and help people understand drugs. I think it fell short where it pushed prevention, where we should have been discussing in in the case of cannabis, which we try to do is you can't avoid the inevitable encounter. Right? And so we need to prepare them. And then that's what we got into a good readiness education.
Speaker 3:We started with this program being a ten to twelve week program targeting towards the youth, started from age 10 to 18. We have a parent track now and a adult track now that really helps kinda both groups understand cannabis a little bit more. But the goal is to, you know, break stigmas, you know, really get people to understand cannabis, how it works with their body, the endocannabinoid system, and understanding that the plant really does have a ton of value in making sure that we have a healthy relationship with candidates as it's integrated into society. It's just important that the community is educated even for, you know, businesses. Right?
Speaker 3:We found that you can't be asking your community to approve you and and be lovey dovey and rub, you know, wrapping our arms around you. And you haven't even done the due diligence to get them to understand what's coming into the community. And so I just think whether you're a consumer or just want to be an educated constituent of society and and other community is important for somebody to be giving you some comprehensive understanding of what the plant is in the industry itself. And so that was our goal. You know, that's what care is about.
Speaker 3:You know, we've had a few different tours that was going around, the state and just gotten feedback from parents, educators so that we can really fine tune this. That that this isn't our expertise. Right? We, you know, we don't claim to be experts in anything that we're not, but we understand the importance of education. So we're leaning, like I said, in most cases, we're always gonna go lean on folks who are the best in the space, and, we're getting our our lead from them.
Speaker 3:And so that's that's kind of the the vibe in, in the CARE program.
Speaker 1:Alright. You know, I just wanna also ask, there's been an effort, you know, for the last, I don't know, maybe twenty years, right, about trying to get, you know, businesses and jobs to to Western New York. And a lot of that has, you know, a lot of money has been spent, and and the the results have not been stellar. How do you think cannabis is gonna play into all of that? Especially, like, with tourism and things like that.
Speaker 3:I think this is the opportunity that a lot of folks were hoping for. I'm interested to see how many people transition into the space. Mhmm. I think the opportunity is there. I think this is a place that can, again, be a hub that's outside of New York City, just in our population, definitely in tourism, us being so close to the border.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. And to your earlier point about craft, I think as a city, especially here in Buffalo, and really this region in Western New York, where towns disguised as cities. Right? And so there's a lot of town behavior in terms of loyalty and brand alliance. So if it's homegrown, if it's made here, we're often supporting it in groves, and we're choosing that over maybe a mainstream option.
Speaker 3:And so I think this is kind of, a organic industry that will, I think will spearhead a lot of kind of that renaissance and, you know, some of that upward motion that people were looking to get when, you know, that investment does come into Western New York.
Speaker 1:Now as far as OCM, right, I mean, you you you've obviously followed the turmoil that that's gone on over there.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:What's your sense of where the agency currently is, and and what advice would you have for the agency, for the governor, for the legislature? What would you like to see in the next, you know, twelve to eighteen months?
Speaker 3:Oh, man. That's a that's a it's a lot of good questions right there. Right? Alright. So first, I'd like to say I'd be remiss to not mention Chris Alexander and a wonderful job he did before he left.
Speaker 3:I think he he he kinda got railroaded. I wanna go on record anytime I'm in front of
Speaker 1:a Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Microphone or have a platform to say that. I think Chris did an amazing job. Shout out to Damien, as well who, led social equity, and I hope he still gets an opportunity to shine because put forward a lot of good initiatives that help structure what we have and what we'll see rollout. I think the what we have was, you know, built in eighteen months, And that that is to be applauded. Right?
Speaker 3:We have the most social equity ownership in the country. Right? And, you know, this is an industry that, again, not even two, three years old. You know, that that is something that should be admired. Right?
Speaker 3:So I, again, wanna just applaud there. And in terms of where we are now that Chris has left and we have this interim, I don't have a ton of expectation in this period.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:I do expect that when September comes that I will hope that the governor's office has a clear direction in which they where they wanna go. And I'm hoping for transparency. The lack of staffing at the agency for whatever reason, I think that created a window where there there just wasn't the ability to be transparent. There wasn't enough people to continue to I can't do my job and talk to you guys because the more I talk to you, the less I'm gonna be able to do my job. And there needs to be somebody who just talked to you.
Speaker 3:And it needs to be somebody that does a job. And it needs to be somebody else that does this. And, like, the compartmentalizing of the, of the duties, I think, need to be something that needs to be addressed. And I'm hoping that is something that is on the priority list. I do also think there needs to be a consistent, avenue or instrument that allows the operators and those looking to get into the space direct contact and conversation with regulators.
Speaker 3:Right? I think what we see happening with lawsuits and and all of this pushback is there's a group of people, regulators, making decisions.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Then there's everybody else that is having to respond. And the only time we really get to talk to them is during that period where we get to comment. And, we still haven't really seen how many comments transition into changed action. And so that is just a broken
Speaker 1:How many of the comments made
Speaker 3:it into the regulations? Right. Right. What what what percentage of that actually converted into change? And so and maybe there is some of that, but nobody's able to actually tell us that or quantify it and tell us in a very clear manner the same way you tell us the rules in a clear manner.
Speaker 3:Right? There's nobody able to tell us the stats in that in that way. And, I mean, in just using my eyes, I just don't don't see that that was the case. And if that's not, I think that that's because it's reactionary. Right?
Speaker 3:You're making a decision and then you say, hey, guys. Do you agree with it? And if we'd say we don't agree with it, you're like, oh, well, I hear what you're saying, but not enough to change it.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:But if the conversation is prior to making the decision, then we can really have some impact. And I think that needs to be an element that I would love to see on the horizon as well. And, you know, I don't know, in the next twelve to sixteen months, you know, especially I I I again, I'll start my clock after September.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:I just like to see, you know, just consistency. You know, consistency from, again, regulators, from legislators, if there's new stuff coming out that we may not know about or that will that will change things up on the federal side. I'd love to see safe banking
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Get approved so we can actually start, you know, using banks like a normal business. I do like this, you know, some of the progression that we've had on taxes, but I love to see some movement there. And just overall, I like to see a more operator friendly
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Mindset. Rollout of the mindset. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think if we can adopt that into the state's decision making, it will flow.
Speaker 3:So many of the things that we wanna get solved will just happen in the spirit of that. So yeah.
Speaker 1:Alright. Well, that's a great answer. Great answer. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Thanks, man.
Speaker 1:So, Reggie, where can people find out more about Cana House and and the work that you're doing? And please let me know when you open. I I I don't Buffalo's a long way, but,
Speaker 3:but but
Speaker 1:I'm tempted to get up there.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. You gotta come on out, man. We'll make sure we'll, you know, we'll give you the we'll give you the great experience, man. So you, anybody out listening, you guys can find us at kena-house.com.
Speaker 3:That's our website. You can always touch and get in touch with us at info@kana-house.com. You can hit us directly. We're social media junkies, so please please fit us on any of their social media platforms. Right now we, primarily are on Instagram and Facebook.
Speaker 3:On Instagram, we're actually the second underscore house. If you type in Ken Alex, you'll see our logo. If you if you kinda match that from, from the website. And on Facebook, we're just Ken and Dash House on Facebook. But, yeah, you can find all of these on the website.
Speaker 3:So if you need to get them directly, but please, please, please hit us up. There's a lot of stuff on the horizon. Shout out to all the retailers who are officially, selling dirty lemonade, which is something we didn't really touch off, which is is okay because it's it's kind of a another baby of ours. But it'll be the first product that we manufacture once we're up and running. And that's a drink.
Speaker 3:It's a drink. It's an infused beverage. It's a ten milligram. We have two flavors out right now, which is the original lemonade and blue raspberry. But, yeah, man, we got a ton of legacy.
Speaker 1:Out at the retail stores?
Speaker 3:Out at retail stores out at Dank 716 in Buffalo, you can find it. We're at Public Flower in Buffalo. We're gonna be at Buffalo of Dream in in Buffalo, New York as well. We've got moving in, you know, further into the state. If anybody's interested in taking orders, hit us directly again on any of those social medias or directly.
Speaker 3:My phone number is (716) 868-8305. It's our business line. Hit us up. We'll be more than happy to discuss, you know, getting some wholesale orders out to you. But, yeah, we're on legal shelves, man.
Speaker 3:We took our first order about, almost a month ago now, three weeks ago or so. And, you know, we've been hitting the ground running, man. We're really excited about that.
Speaker 1:Alright. Well, terrific. And and best of luck. Again, let let me know when you guys are ready to open.
Speaker 3:I would think we're gonna do a two day two day weekend, man. So, you know, prepare yourself, man. It'll be it'll be well worth the trip, you know?
Speaker 1:Alright. Thank you.
Speaker 3:No. Thank you, Herb. Appreciate the platform, man.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. We'll be back in two weeks with the first of two parts with three former OCM staff members in a no holds barred discussion. My guests will be Aaron Gettleman, Ben Sheridan, and Matt Greenberg. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. It helps new listeners find the show.
Speaker 1:Joint session is produced by me, Herb Waubot, with additional production and engineering by Matt Patterson with Rebecca Malpika on digital marketing and social media. In addition, thank you to Canvas Wire. You can find us on Instagram at joinsession.pod. That's one word, joinsession.pod, and on LinkedIn at join session podcast. Until next time, this is Herb Waubau.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
