Year 4 of the MRTA: Navigating New York's Cannabis Landscape
Download MP3Welcome to joint session Diverse Voices in New York State Cannabis, the podcast where policymakers, legislators, thought leaders, licensees, and advocates come to discuss the evolving landscape of cannabis in New York and beyond. I'm Herb Barbeau, former Director of Operations at New York's Office of Cannabis Management. Each episode, we bring you in-depth conversations with key voices shaping policy, business and advocacy, plus expert insights on the latest developments impacting the industry. And now for the episode.
Speaker 2:To the first episode of season two of joint session, Diverse Voices in New York State Cannabis. I'm Herb Barbeau. We're excited to be back and have great guests already scheduled. We're going to do things a little different this time around. Against my better judgment, we'll have more video content to go with the all audio version of the podcast.
Speaker 2:We're also planning to do more episodes and release weekly rather than biweekly. If you're returning to the show, I hope you like this version. Please do let me know. If you're new to the show, thanks for listening. And when you have a moment, please go back and listen to the first season.
Speaker 2:I am hopeful you'll find those episodes worthwhile. Before we begin, let's take a spin around the news. At the January, New York governor Kathy Hochul released her budget plan, currently being negotiated to meet an April 1 deadline. With regards to the Office of Cannabis Management, the emphasis is on hiring, especially staffers who work in enforcement. Hochul is proposing that OCM be funded at $73,100,000 a slight increase from last year's budget, which includes $5,000,000 to support 29 new staffers dedicated to OCM's enforcement efforts against illicit cannabis businesses.
Speaker 2:New York State now also has a new grant program for conditional adult use retail dispensary licensees. This grant program will provide justice involved licensees up to $30,000 from a pot of 5,000,000. The program is intended to provide grants to cover essential startup costs, including commercial rent, capital improvements for retail locations, security equipment purchases and installations, point of sale system purchases, inventory tracking systems, and insurance costs. The OCM has published a one pager on what applicants can expect, along with a link to the portal. We'll add these links to our show notes.
Speaker 2:This is all as a drug policy alliance and groups like the Bronx Cannabis Hub are calling on lawmakers to do more to help these justice involved licensees. For example, DPA suggested that the state fully fund licensees build out and rental costs. As listeners of this show know, the state initially promised turnkey locations for card licensees. That didn't happen, to say the least. In swing state news, the governors of Pennsylvania and Wisconsin are again asking their legislatures, respectively, to pass adult use and medical cannabis legislation.
Speaker 2:Good luck with that, Governors Shapiro and Evers. According to CNBC, this year's Oscar swag bags with gifts worth $220,000 given to each Oscar nominee included a number of cannabis products. In a preview of a future episode we're working on, the California cannabis industry continues to face numerous challenges, but still holds signs of growth. That's the high level takeaway of a new report that the California Department of Cannabis Control presented to state lawmakers last week. The report is unprecedented in its scope and depth and provides the clearest estimate yet of the size of the state's illegal market that has remained undented by legalization.
Speaker 2:California legal cannabis sales went live in 2018. The first couple of years looked bright, and then, as the report notes, the market conditions for licensed cannabis businesses in California have been challenging since 2021 through 2024. Wholesale cannabis prices have fallen by more than 50% since 2020, the post legalization peak, and retail prices have also fallen by 36% since then. At the same time, license production has nearly doubled, and the number of units sold at retail has doubled for nearly all product types. In short, it's a growing market, but it's worth less.
Speaker 2:The forward facing picture looks brighter. The report notes that as more licensed cannabis is being produced and sold, the demand for licensed cannabis eventually puts an upward pressure on prices, And as the number of licensed retailers rises, it can help discourage purchases from the illicit market. I'm not an economist, but this doesn't sound right from a supply and demand perspective. Finally, how often have you asked yourself, how does cannabis consumption affect male reproduction? Well, a Washington State University researcher is planning to enroll 100 men for a double blind, placebo controlled clinical trial that aims to understand the direct effects of cannabis on male reproductive functions.
Speaker 2:Participants will either not consume or vape a placebo or vape flower with one of two levels of THC. Then the researchers will look specifically at things like sperm counts, motility, morphology, and testosterone levels. Can't wait for the results on this one. As always, I'd like to thank Cannabis Wire for that news. Check out cannabis warrior at cannabiswarrior.com.
Speaker 3:My very first guest of season two is Joe Rossi. Joe is a seasoned government relations professional with almost two decades of experience in New York State's political landscape. As the founder of Modern Advocacy LLC, he brings a wealth of expertise in state and local government relations, business development, relations management, and strategic planning. Since 2022, Mr. Rossi has been recognized as a cannabis industry power player by Politics AM and New York Metro, underscoring his influence and thought leadership in this sector.
Speaker 3:His insights have been featured in prominent publications such as The New York Times, Rolling Stone, Political, The New York Post, The City, The Buffalo News, and now The Real Big Time joint session. Welcome, Joe.
Speaker 4:And a, and a first time caller, longtime listener of this fantastic podcast. Thank you for doing this herb.
Speaker 3:No, well, thank you. And I know, you know, we started talking about you, participating, back in the spring and just with the calendars, and it just didn't work out. So I'm glad to have you on the very first episode again. So what I wanna do today is to look back briefly. I don't wanna rehash everything that happened in 2024, but look back briefly and bring the audience up to date on where we are, and then look forward to what we can expect from the agency, from the industry, from the legislature when I look at some bills that have been proposed.
Speaker 3:So first of all, let me ask you because I I know modern advocacy is brand new. What made you leave? What made you start your own shop?
Speaker 4:Well, first, I I had the blessing of my friends and colleagues at Park Strategies, a top 10 lobby firm in in New York State in New York City. I've been there for over thirteen years. I I I think it was two things. One, I think there was a political earthquake last year. I don't think the Democrats just had a bad cycle.
Speaker 4:I think things are now upside down. And I wanted to be more agile, and I love being political. And it's, Aristotle said we're all political animals, but I love that. It makes me feel alive and to be involved. And, yeah, I plan on being very active this year and next while also, you know, doing what I have always done, which is, you know, being an advocate.
Speaker 3:Alright. Well, thank you, and best wishes. So let's talk a little bit about what happened in the cannabis space in New York, OCM. At the start of 2024, the industry and the market looked very different from where we ended up at the end of 2024. Could you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 3:And you, I should say, those who don't know, was you you were one of the sort of strongest, critics of the agency at the start of 2024.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And and I don't wanna focus on the past. It's all ancient history myself too, but really I was a whistleblower at the beginning of twenty twenty four. I was pointing out things that were being said quietly, about, you know, the, the conditions of, of where things stood about the communication, you know, troubles with the OCM and applicants. And and and largely, a lot of the stuff that was in Jeanette Moy's report come May were things that I was I had the audacity to say out loud.
Speaker 4:I'm reminded that, as an American citizen, I have the first amendment. I have the right to petition my government with my grievance as we all do. And I just work so closely.
Speaker 3:That'll remain the case.
Speaker 4:We'll see when this re goes live if that's still the case. But, yeah, I worked I worked with a lot of the small guys. You know? I started with the hemp growers and processors long before legalization, and they were getting screwed, and I just felt, I wanted to use my political capital, to to to be a whistleblower. And long story short, governor Hochul called the program a disaster.
Speaker 4:Here's where I speed up. Like, Seinfeld, yada yada yada, a billion dollars. Disaster, billion dollars. There was a bridge in between, and that was people, your former colleagues at the OCM. Good people.
Speaker 4:I'll mention a few names. Pat McKeej, Jim Rogers, Ty McGoo, John Kaguya, that really were
Speaker 3:the bridge, the professors Robinson. Who is now
Speaker 4:Tabitha Robinson. I'm leaving a few people on. I apologize. Nicole Rosa. Wonderful people.
Speaker 4:And then they brought in some new people like Sue Philburn, pro, complete veteran, literally a veteran of our armed forces and a veteran of state government. I don't know which is tougher. Just kidding. But the, it's for me. And again, I like calling balls and strikes in life.
Speaker 4:It was much different at the end of last year. You could feel the difference. You could feel that single point of contact being, helpful to applicants. You could see that there was the modicum of, of government, you know, mechanics working where at the end of last year, the cannabis advisory board recommended to the cannabis control board, how many licenses for retail there should be total. And they did that through a formal process that went to the control, but like the end of last year was functioning.
Speaker 4:And so I I'm, I'm very optimistic going into 2025. They did a billion dollars with 300 stores. There's 20,000,000 New Yorkers in the state of New York. Three hundred stores is obviously not enough. So the sky's the limit, obviously, maintaining the intent of the MRTA.
Speaker 4:And we
Speaker 3:should say that at the start of the year, there were 24 retail dispensaries ending up with, you know, 300. Now would you say that some of that any of that is to the credit of the former leadership, right, that they may have laid some seeds that were sown later on.
Speaker 4:I'd I'd I'd I'll use his name directly. I think Chris Alexander is an amazing person. I think he did a tremendous job writing the MRTA, putting in the work with people like Crystal People Stokes and Liz Krueger, and writing what is the most progressive legalization bill in The United States Of America. He's an amazing advocate. I think he was a little, I think they put him in a a position that was, you know, to start an agency.
Speaker 4:You and I have talked about this. When have we ever watched a state agency build from the ground up and put someone in in into that position who's never done that before or even been in that kind of position? I think Chris Alexander's future is extremely bright, and I think the state of New York owes him a debt of gratitude. However, I think the place is running a lot smoother now.
Speaker 3:So now we're in 2025. What do you see as the continuing challenges for the market, for licensed applicants, for licensees, over the next few months?
Speaker 4:So if you don't mind, we'll break them down into the different, you know, sectors of the industry, dispensaries, there's retail processors, cultivators, etcetera. For the retail, they're they're still dealing with illegal shops in in across from Buffalo to Brooklyn. Definitely work was done on that by the administration and the OCM. Operation Padlock definitely put a dent into things, but we'd be lying to ourselves if there still isn't, you know, a bunch of illegal shops operating. So for them to be for dispensaries to be able to compete, you gotta, you know, nip that in the bud.
Speaker 4:Listen, those folks can't do tax deductions. You know, they had banking issues. They have advertising restrictions that may or not be beef being followed right now. You have a lot of things that make this a, you know, difficult process for a retailer. And I think the state's doing its best to try to, you know, level that playing field in the, if you don't mind if it in the CA in the cultivation and processing space, it's, I think the worst kept secret in New York state cannabis, that there's illegal activity happening in the legal industry.
Speaker 4:Say it more clearly, Joe, there's inversion happening in New York state. There's trafficking happening in
Speaker 3:New What inversion means?
Speaker 4:It's trafficking. It's it's it's bringing stuff in from out of state that was grown process, outside of New York state, putting it into the legal market and and and suggesting it was grown and processed in the state of New York. The the seed to sale tracking portal and integration process in New York state adult use market just became live towards the end of last year. Once that's fully established, the state will be able to ascertain those facts a little bit more. But because this is still just a nascent industry and we all talk to each other, it's, it's, it's a, it's, it's pretty clear.
Speaker 4:Again, I'm being a whistleblower on that and I seen Ozark, so I know how that ends, you know, like, I don't want to end up like that. But at the same time, if you're a processor and a cultivator and you can't do two eighty e, you can't use the reg you know, you can't do loans from banks, you got restrictions here, and you got that. That Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so just to explain a little bit, two eighty e is is IRS code allowing for the deduction is for ordinary business expenses. If you're a liquor store and you're a cannabis dispensary, you have two different, you know, sort of platforms when it comes to the federal government. Yes, sir.
Speaker 4:So for two eighty E, for normal businesses, you can do deductions on your taxes because cannabis is a schedule one controlled substance. In the eyes of uncle Sam still, certainly for the next few years, you can't do, deductions on your federal taxes because you're dealing with a schedule one controlled substance. So where most people would potentially get, you know, a sizable profit from this stuff, you get a significantly less profit because you're not doing those deductions. So I just point that out that there's that going on. And so my point, and I'll wrap it up, is if it's legal and okay to bring stuff in from out of state, let them all do it.
Speaker 4:And if it's not, cut it out. And since, you and I, are doing this, this office of cannabis management created a trade practices bureau. I picture Elliot Ness and the untouchables, with Jim Rogers. But their goal is to be, a special task force to look into things like that, TPI abuses, etcetera. So, again, progress.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, which and and that that phrase, you know, the trade practices bureau sort of reminded me of a phrase that you use, you know, the overpromise and underdeliver. You know, this is probably, you know, Jim Rogers at the OCM is, you know, just a tremendous, you know, bureaucrat, and I use bureaucrat in in in the highest regard. But this is maybe his third or fourth role there. And I'm not sure, whether they for them to begin to speak about this without having the team in place yet. And I'm not sure that team is in place yet.
Speaker 3:I I think they should sort of hold off until they're ready to actually start, you know, conducting these investigations, but, you know, we'll see. But
Speaker 4:Jim Rogers,
Speaker 3:I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:You and Jim Rogers had this, the same former boss and Jim Rogers knows what he's doing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, absolutely. Oh, and that boss is, former governor Cuomo. So let's let's talk a little bit more about some of the big items, some of the big issues, for 2025. So we still have the leftover November and December, the infamous November and December queues. What do you expect to see with those two?
Speaker 3:I I I haven't I believe they're at number 2,000 in the November queue.
Speaker 4:I believe there's only 2,200 applications in that November queue. They're almost done with it. That's gonna be great. They can't give out any more provisional licenses under this current injunction. I don't know how that's gonna play out.
Speaker 4:And so when you talk about the December queue in retail dispensaries, those are purely provisional licenses for retailers. So they're in limbo. There's no other way of just saying that. That's and then the other part of the December queue is obviously cultivators, processors, distributors with their own location and are anxious to go. And and, at the last board meeting, they didn't issue any cultivating licenses, but there's obviously this in that, when I was speaking earlier where the cannabis advisory board recommended 1,600 retail dispensaries total recommended, advised to the control board.
Speaker 4:They also said put a freeze on any more supply side licenses until you figure out how many stores you want. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but that puts those, December cultivators, processors, distributors also in limbo.
Speaker 3:Now how how would you rate because a lot of discussion still from folks in the legacy world. How would you rate OCM's social equity the the job that they've done in social equity at this point?
Speaker 4:I think the intent was beautiful. It's it's it's it's on the noble pursuit of our generation. We can't stop despite what the knuckleheads in Washington are saying currently. Mhmm. The implementation wasn't great.
Speaker 4:Okay? That you told people across the state to apply for a retail dispensary license if you were justice involved, New Yorker, and you were going to get a location and money to help you. You didn't have to worry about either, and none of that really materialized. And what did materialize was what was been referred to as a predatory loan, from the dormitory authority. Predatory is not my word.
Speaker 4:It's actually Crystal People Stokes' word from an interview she did with David Lombardo. And you read about Rollin Conner at smacked and, you know, facing bankruptcy. And, you know, obviously there's two sides to every story and everything like that, but that didn't go great. And the fund was a public private partnership fund that didn't materialize where I think if I could just be crass and straightforward and blunt is the legislature should have put that money in it to begin with. If it was $200,000,000, if we can do a half a billion dollars for the Bills Stadium, you can do 200,000,000 for, the social equity fund.
Speaker 4:It didn't happen. Hopefully they can, you know, figure that out. 50% of the licenses. The goal of the MRTA is to go to social equity applicants. It went from the beginning.
Speaker 4:We didn't know how that was going to actually happen because you knew that there was going to be an advantage for, you know, people with, with, with the funding and the, and the, and the access to that capital. So that was the intent, obviously the card thing and so on. I don't think it's constitutional the way it went about. And I think that's what we're dealing with this current injunction, frankly. But how do you do it?
Speaker 4:I mean, I'm as not as smart as you heard, but I was thinking just one for one, if it's gotta be 50% for everyone I do over here, I got to do one over there, to, to make it equal, but I love that it's going to be difficult to make it equal, but it's important to make it equal. It's important on, on all fronts. I think Tabitha did an amazing job. I think Damian Fagan, who I know and, worked with on the cannabis association of New York, is a good person. I think he, you know, had a tough position.
Speaker 4:I think the social equity director was supposed to be that progressive, ambitious, laser focused person on social equity, but that was the executive director. The executive director said, it's not about cannabis for him. It was all about justice. So you had you had a social equity director under mister Alexander. So Damian was just doubling it up.
Speaker 4:You know? And it was and the results weren't weren't there. I wish them both
Speaker 3:the best.
Speaker 4:They're both gonna be very successful.
Speaker 3:Not the the fund was not run by the agency. The fund was run outside of the agency.
Speaker 4:And that's inside baseball. Yep.
Speaker 3:And it had very minimal impact. And the impact that it did have was harmful more than anything else. Right? They were expecting to have 150 licensees utilize it, ended up being less than two dozen. And those two less than two dozen are, really under the gun right now to pay back those loans.
Speaker 4:Something tells me if the shoes were on the other foot and I was inside and, I didn't produce, what people I, what my goal and my intent and my heart was to do. You're again, this is New York. If you're pitching for the Yankees, if you're a point guard for the Knicks, God bless you. But if you're not hitting those threes, man, you get booed out of town and and and New Yorkers feel like if you're not on the level, they, you know, it gets, it gets pretty hot quick. But, yeah.
Speaker 4:So, again, I I really would like to underline that. Those are two great people. You know? And although we disagreed part of the American experiment to disagree in our democracy, I I I wish them nothing but the absolute best. Yeah.
Speaker 4:So so
Speaker 3:at the moment and and sticking with social equity final right for a moment, right now, you know, their their efforts, their pleas to try to help those, you know, less than two dozen that took a that that participated in the social equity fund. Right? So somehow either forgive the loans or restructure the loans. Is there is there any merit to that? I mean, do do you expect that something will come along to to help these folks out?
Speaker 4:Is there merit to it, and do I expect stuff to help? There's merit to it. You can feel it in your gut. That's not right what happened. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:Will something happen? That's gonna depend on the advocates, pushing. I know to I don't know. I know this, there will be a joint budget hearing on economic development in front of the state senate state assembly tomorrow, and the cannabis retail association, the association for cannabis processors, the medical cannabis industry association, the cannabis farmers alliance, all plan on kind of speaking to the people who got screwed in 2023 and the beginning of 2024. On the retail side, as well as on the processing side, there's discussions out there providing a a tax credit for the processors and cultivators that were kinda Yeah.
Speaker 4:Hindered because they were told, get ready. We're doing 20 stores a month with Dasney all at 2024 or 2023. Never in 2023, it didn't materialize, but those cultivators and processors trusted their government. And so they grew that much, they they true true story is they invested a lot of money, you know, where they were saying, if you're a retail applicant, don't worry about the money. Don't worry about the location, but the, those original guys, and those are my guys, my friends, those original hemp growers and processors, they weren't offered any location or money.
Speaker 4:They had to find that themselves the old fashioned way. And so they got hurt the old fashioned way. So do they deserve recompense as Donald Parle calls it? You're you're damn right.
Speaker 3:Alright. So I'd like to move on to talk about some either regulatory or legislative changes that are on the horizon that have been proposed this year. One of the ones that you you hear a lot about is the desire for the on-site consumption regulations. Right? People are ready to move with on-site consumption.
Speaker 3:There's been learning, coming from the agency, about where we stand with, the drafting of regulations. What have you heard?
Speaker 4:I heard that the regulations need to be, you know, written, put out, public comment, and then you can do applications. I also have not heard, seen a business plan that demonstrates that that's a a winning business practice. New York State is the only state, I believe, in the nation where me and you can go smoke a joint outside where the guys are smoking cigarettes.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:There's the and I believe in Las Vegas, there's only one or two locations right now that's on-site consumption. I don't I just don't know what that is ultimately gonna look like. I think, ultimately, they just gotta let the retail dispensaries have the option of opening up an on-site consumption locale for their for their customers, but a stand alone on-site consumption, I I don't I haven't I don't understand.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, there is this thing called the the limited consumption facility that's supposed to be adjacent to a dispensary, but I really haven't seen, much of that.
Speaker 4:Saying, I could see its value. Absolutely. I could I mean, if this by the way, the only reason it really hasn't necessarily is because it's still got this stigma that's slowly fading away from it that, oh god, how can you do that? Like, you know, it's the same as smoking cigars upstairs, folks. It's it's it's an you know, we can get the air purifiers and so on.
Speaker 4:I there's a lot of legislation, Herb, this year about we don't want those we want those places farther away from schools and school grounds and houses of worship. But, again, they haven't even written or they may have written. I apologize, but they haven't put out the regulations for that yet. Last year, one one of the regulations I'm anticipating and anxious, and I've actually been working on, is they passed a law last year, and the governor signed it for the grower showcases. Well, those need regulations and those can be very helpful for those types of events.
Speaker 4:One's pretty cool for consumers, but two, it's good for the small business guys. And we need to see those too.
Speaker 3:Can you talk a little bit about what, what the girl showcase is? Cause it has been tried, right? It was sort of a, of an ad hoc effort at one point and it would turn out to be pretty successful.
Speaker 4:It was a band aid in 2023 for the lack of stores and the oversupply of cultivated cannabis and products. So it was very similar to farmer's markets, if you don't mind me saying where, you know, you know, people could, come together and, and, and hold a grower showcase of, of here's our product. Come here, look at it, talk to the people who grew it, learn about it. Very cool. Personally, I think on a craft cannabis, you know, culture, I think it was very cool people get in-depth as a consumer.
Speaker 4:I think they also you you know, people were clever to then turn those grower showcases into actually stores where they were, you know, they were like, order from us. It's you know? And and and they they did makeshift dispensaries before they got licensed. New Yorkers are creative. I got no, you know, criticism on that.
Speaker 4:But going forward, if I can do a grower showcase at a concert, if I could do a grower showcase at a place that's, you know, a reasonable if I could do a grower showcase at the great New York state fair on the fairgrounds, Joe, what are you talking about? You can't have can't they have a gun show at the state fair, Herb. They have a freaking gun showers. Like, kids are free. Okay.
Speaker 4:You got okay. We this is part of that stigma thing that we're gonna be cutting through, but I would I would think that would be very beneficial for the people in the supply chain. There's some people done very, very well in the space, that are now competing with, you know, the larger operators from, you know, across the multistate operators. And then there's people kind of below them all that got into this. There are gonna be more, by the way, with those micro business licensees.
Speaker 4:They just think on it. They wanna talk to consumers straight straightforward and and take it a little slow maybe and and do these showcases. And I believe New York State is the first in the nation that did that, by the way, and they deserve credit for that. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Going back to looking at some of the statutes, or some of the proposed, legislation, one one of the items in the governor's on governor Hochul's, budget bill, has gotten some attention, and that's to allow the odor of cannabis to be used as a as a probable cause to stop a vehicle and to seek a blood test. But I guess the drive
Speaker 4:drug test. Is it a blood test? A blood test. I'm sorry. Blood test.
Speaker 4:Is it a blood test? I didn't know that. I just said it. It said drug test as
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think it's a blood test.
Speaker 4:It didn't go over well. Yeah. It didn't go over well.
Speaker 3:Well and, actually, one of the things that was interesting about this, and we'll we'll double check. One of the things that was interesting is that the agency itself has come out, in opposition to this, concept that the governor proposed.
Speaker 4:Yeah. It be in in their argument, which is a fair one, is it flies in the face of what the MRTA accomplished, which is the smell of pot should not be a crime or a reason to get into deeper trouble or anything like that. The smell of pot, I've learned, is, you know, a reason for the lot of the stop and frisk garbage in in the city. And so when people hear that, they figure they they feel like it's mission creep, or we're going backwards from from the progress. We're regressing.
Speaker 4:I think it's crazy. Like, if I smoke good cannabis, I'm and then two hours ago, I'm still my fingers might still smith you Herb, you never smoked pot, but your fingers might smell like it a little bit. And if the guy pulls you over and smells it, but I got I'm better. I'm fine now. I'm I'm fine to be behind the wheel.
Speaker 4:You know? That should not that could that's a slippery slope, I think. And Crystal People Stokes called it out as, you know, as a as a champion for the MRCA.
Speaker 3:Well and and so the science doesn't support it. Right? They there it's it's not like alcohol where there's a blood alcohol content level, right, that that is accepted by courts that, you know, so it determines that someone is impaired. There there's nothing similar at this point, with cannabis.
Speaker 4:Cannabis is so skunky. Good stuff is. And it it'll it'll last it'll last on you for a while, you know, especially if you're not intimidated by it or scared of being having that smell on you. People smoke cigarettes. They could smoke a cigarette three hours ago.
Speaker 4:I can smell it on them when they when they come by. You know? So it's just it I don't know. I I guess that's part of the more of the law and order stance that's, you know, kind you're seeing, you know, a a shift, in that, but I I think it's it's gonna need a lot of resistance. But
Speaker 3:yeah. Another bill that caught my eye, and there's so there's interest to make sure that the medical cannabis, you know, side of the house sort of stays viable, right, that patients continue to utilize medical cannabis as opposed to, going to an adult use store. And there's a proposal to get rid of the tax that's imposed, which
Speaker 4:is already lower than the adult use tax, but to get rid of the tax that's imposed on the purchase of medical cannabis. Any thoughts on that? Yeah. I I don't really get involved in too much of the medical cannabis industry. I was very involved with the repeal and replacement of the potency tax in the adult use side, and I can tell you that was a godsend for a lot of operators.
Speaker 4:That was a significant, opera you know, benefit to to the operators. I imagine the same goes for for the medical folks. I don't my whole career I've in in lobbying on cannabis policy, I've never done much on the medical side. I did get my lice I did get my medical card the day Andrew Cuomo signed legalization because we could all we didn't have to have a debilitating condition anymore. We could and I got depression.
Speaker 4:I got anxiety. I got this. I got that. I got in my car.
Speaker 3:That's just absolutely from New Yorker. Exactly.
Speaker 4:I've made you human. I'm just kidding. And I'm from Syracuse. We only see the sun six months a year out here, so we're all miserable, by the way. Okay.
Speaker 3:And as you mentioned earlier, there are a number of bills that would instead of shortening and there's a lot of discussion about shortening distances, you know, of cannabis, you know, retail dispensaries to each other, to schools and and places of worship. There are a number of bills that expand the required distance from dispensaries to to schools and places of worship. And and, also, there are a number of bills, interestingly, that that would would ban the smoking of cannabis outside, you know, unless it's approved by the locality. Right now, either if you can smoke a cigarette, you can smoke a joint.
Speaker 4:You can't even do that in Amsterdam, Holland, and you can't walk along the canals of Amsterdam just smoking weed anymore. They they stopped that. So it's like New York City is just a a place to its own right now. They call it the wild wild East that's going on there. The bill that I like out of the dozens and dozens of bills that are being introduced in both the senate and the assembly, many of which are only introduced in one house and not the other yet.
Speaker 4:But the one that jumped out to me was Linda Rosenthal, who's, you know, from the Upper West Side is pretty liberal, and she wants to create a directory of the illegal stores. When you and and I I saw your face. But when you say we closed down a thousand, what does that mean? Out of 2,000? Out of 8,000?
Speaker 4:And so just a modicum of of of a county, city, everyone has to kinda do their own self reporting. It might not be perfect. But I I do like that concept just so there's a, you know, more of an eye on it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. See, I I I didn't like that concept because the the agency already publishes a list of licensed dispensaries, right? So if it's not on the list of licensed dispensaries, then it's unlicensed. And I just think, again, the staffing and the manpower and the effort to catalog the unlicensed ones might not, you know, might not be worth the, the effort.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I and and as you know, I try to follow every bill introduction that that comes through. Last year, there was equal amount of bills that passed, I'm sorry, that were introduced in both the assembly and the senate, and only three ultimately passed both houses, and two of which were ultimately signed by the governor. So it's it you know, just because a bill isn't is introduced doesn't mean it's gonna pass, but I like the creativity that the legislature is taking to this. You also were talking about proximities.
Speaker 4:Currently, there's the pack there's the the the proximity public convenience and advantage regulations that are trying to maybe even narrow, the the distance from each from each store and from other things. I that that's gonna be interesting debate to watch. I hope it is a debate. Hope it's a healthy debate.
Speaker 3:I just saw come across, that, news item that, it looks like former governor Cuomo might be entering the name of city race, but but that's a different topic. We'll we'll we'll talk about that separate.
Speaker 4:Never liked Canada. See, I don't know. He was they never really was. He he was big on the wine. He was big on the craft industry.
Speaker 4:He's very helpful to the Upstate Finger Lakes wineries and so on. I I gotta get him to come around on the cannabis stuff.
Speaker 3:Alright. So just big big predictions for 2025. What what do you think? Oh, are we gonna hit 2 and a half million dollar $2.02 and half billion dollars?
Speaker 4:President Musk will close down the majority of the federal government, and then he's gonna take us all to Mars. I see that in my crystal ball. I see chaos, coming from Washington that may or may not turn into, you know, a benefit to us as Americans. I think, you know, which side I'm on on that. There was a moment.
Speaker 4:Do you remember when we were like rescheduling here? It's going to happen. It's like, it's going to be great. We're going to have all that's going happen.
Speaker 3:December looks like it might happen.
Speaker 4:No. No. Not not with the crew that's in there now. That's not gonna that's not gonna happen. So as far as New York goes, you know, obviously, the one big thing in governor Hochul's budget this year was more enforcement money, which so you can anticipate more enforcement.
Speaker 4:Elliot Ness, excuse me, Jim Rogers is gonna do his thing this year. I see that in my crystal ball. I see, hopefully, the chair, the control board, and the executive director being confirmed by the senate because they're both over their three year terms. Mhmm. So we we're, you know, watching that with a close eye.
Speaker 4:There's already some new people on the control board, Brad Usher, who's just, you know, a a veteran in the cannabis policy space. Mhmm. But I see 600 stores total by the end of this year, which, know, could easily be 2,000,000,000. And sounds I think the state you what you're gonna see is though that reinvestment funding be spent appropriately in in the communities, in the right parts of, town, right communities. That for me is gonna be transformative.
Speaker 4:Could you
Speaker 3:talk a little bit about what that what that is?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So the the the state collects money from these taxes and some goes to the city, some goes to the county lion's share goes to the state, and a lot of it goes into a reinvestment fund that municipalities can apply for, kind of like the lotto money. Right? It went to education funding, but whatever. But this is going actually to a fund where that the city of Syracuse, where I'm sitting currently, can apply for funding to put into, say, the South Side Of Syracuse, which was, you know, disproportionately impacted by the cannabis laws of the past?
Speaker 4:Millions of dollars they can possibly get here and, and, and put into whatever is, you know, the, the need. Know, Syracuse, there's food deserts. If, if you don't mind, Syracuse also has the highest poverty per capita child poverty in the, in America. If you can take some of that money from cannabis, the sweet plant of cannabis and turn it into a betterment for our community. God bless Chris Alexander for putting that.
Speaker 3:And that's what that was another one of the sort of unique aspects of the law in New York, but it's not the governor. It's not the agency. It's not even the cannabis control board. It's the cannabis advisory board that gets to determine where this, where this money is spent.
Speaker 4:I would love to just say Joe Bellic is doing an incredible job with that advisory board. He's he's he's flying blind, and he's doing his best, and he's got some great people on that advisory board. Such such an an influential part of the government process to have people say, well, hang on a second. Look at it this way just quickly. If you look at it from here, it's a little different.
Speaker 4:And so, you know, shout out to to Joe Bellic and I think Alan Gandelman, is
Speaker 3:that his name? Alright, Joe. Well, thank you so much for being on this episode of Joint Session.
Speaker 4:It's the best podcast in New York State Cannabis. Everyone should be listening.
Speaker 1:That's it for this episode of Joint Session, Diverse Voices in New York State Cannabis. If you found today's discussion valuable, consider leaving a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. It helps more listeners find the show. Better yet, share it with colleagues, advocates, and anyone interested in the future of cannabis in New York. Joint Session is produced by me, Herb Barbeau, together with executive producer Robert Curtis from Simlev Media.
Speaker 1:Special thanks as always to Cannabis Wire. You can follow us on Instagram at jointsession.pod and on LinkedIn at joint session podcast. If you have any comments, questions or topic suggestions, reach out to me at herb.jointsession@gmail.com. Until next time, this is Herb Wabo. Thanks for listening.
